II PCWC

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II PCWC

Post by TGW on Sat May 24, 2014 10:31 pm

As many know this years Pokemon Clan World Cup will start soon, so in order to make it perfectly this year (yeah I know it was garbage last year in terms of hosting) I've decided to check what Hero thinks about the new format we thought and what changes would you do (if theres any).

General Stuff


  • It'll be hosted by Draciel, Atli and myself (none of us will take part in any team).
  • There will be 10 tiers, which are XY Ubers, XY OU (x2), XY UU, XY LU, XY NU, XY LC, BW2 OU, BW2 UU and HGSS OU. The tiers will be the same every week (instead of being random like last year).
  • All players of all clans will have to make an account on PO forums. Hopefully this will avoid the problems of last year with activities and with finding opps.
  • No coinflips or whatsoever. We'll follow a POWC style procedure with dead-games.
  • Format will stay as Group Stage + Knock-Outs.
  • Some clans will be allowed to join with more than 1 team (Sub-Teams/Clans from now on. I'll explain it later)
  • Minimum 10 Players to join. Maximum 20. (This might change)
  • The size of the tour will be of 32 teams maximum. (Counting sub-clans).
  • Sign-Ups will open in 2/3 weeks max.



Sub-Teams / Sub-Clans

In PO massive clans are pretty common, so we thought that it wouldnt be fair if a 50/60/70 members clan had to choose just 20 to take part (appart from creating intern conflicts, like happened last year to some big clans). So we decided to let clans that have up to 40/50 members (not decided yet) to join with 1 or 2 sub-clans (appart from the main team). The max size of this sub-teams isnt decided yet.


Format

Group Stage (Round 1)

Simple. 8 groups of 4 clans each. 2 best of every group go to Play-Offs. Wins give 3 points, ties 1 point and losses 0 points. In case of point ties when the group stage is over, the Win/Lose record decides.

Knock-Out Rounds
16 teams left. Simple knock-out rounds (including battle for 3rd place with semifinals losers). In case of a tie the tiebreakers will be XY Ubers, XY OU (the 1st battle listed) and BW2 OU. This 3 tiers would have to be rematched (or not, if people prefers it this way before the tour starts).

What about Sub-teams?
Our main doubt in the format comes from that very question. And we came up with 2 options.

Option 1
Reserve 24 spots for main clans, and just 8 for sub-teams. Isolate sub-teams togheter in 2 groups of 4 and make them battle each other. 2 best of each group go to playoffs, and in playoffs the sub-teams of the other group battle between them. The 2 winner sub-teams are added to the main tour in quarter-finals. As seen here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Good things about this option: Only 2 Sub-Teams mess with main clans. This lets nearly everyone play the entire tour freely.

Bad things about this option: The number of sub-teams is limited to 8. This can produce unfair situations in high rounds, like for example a semifinal between Hero 1 vs Hero 2.


Option 2

No need for an exact number of sub-teams (max 16 to avoid problems in the group stage). In this case, sub teams will be treated as an independent clan, sharing groups with main teams. What happens next is a bit complicated, so I'll explain it with an example.

Hero joins with 3 teams: Hero 1 (Main team), Hero 2 (Sub-Team) and Hero 3 (Sub-Team).

Hero 1 ends 1st of their group, Hero 2 ends 2nd and Hero 3 ends 3rd.

Since Hero 1 and Hero 2 made it to playoffs, Hero 1 is allowed to make a new roster with players from Hero 1 and Hero 2 (Probably bigger than just 20 players). The clan that ended 3rd in Hero 2's group goes to playoffs (since Hero 2 merged with Hero 1). Hero 3 is completely out, so Hero 1 isnt allowed to take players from it.

What if Hero 1 fails and Hero 2 and 3 make it?? In this case the procedure will be the same but counting Hero 2 as the main team. (Hero 3 gets merged into Hero 2).

Good things about this option: Everyone in massive clans gets to at least play the group stage. This doesnt force to have an exact number of Sub-Teams (its the same having 3, 10 or 16 sub-teams signing up), so makes the tour easier to be hosted. Sub-Teams dont mess with main teams in knock out rounds, which makes the hole thing more fair to smaller clans.

Bad things about this option: Not everybody in massive clans gets to play knockout rounds. This can cause conflicts of people getting mad for not being picked.

-------------------------------------

So, my main questions are:

Option 1 or Option 2??

Is there anything you would change??


Every suggestion is highly appreciated, so please feel free to post.

Thanks!!

PS: Thanks to Fille for giving me permission to post here. If this thread goes better in any other sub-forum, feel free to move it.

TGW
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Re: II PCWC

Post by Loligont on Sat May 24, 2014 11:02 pm

Honestly I would prefer the first option , but as itself I don't get why Hero 2 wouldn't be independent still.
Because why would Hero 1 take players from Hero 2 if they already got a roster :/

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Re: II PCWC

Post by Daybreak on Sat May 24, 2014 11:22 pm

I would prefer to have the 1st option as well, tbh it just seems less complicated and the most fair. Generally if you lose, you are out of the tour. That is how tournaments work, and clans that have 2 teams would have an unfair advantage going into the knock out stage since they could recruit more players from the sub teams.
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Re: II PCWC

Post by KyogreF4N on Sun May 25, 2014 8:42 am

Option 1 looks better to me. Simpler and more logical.


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Re: II PCWC

Post by Lasen on Sun May 25, 2014 8:57 am

I believe that option 1 is the best imo. Just simpler in a lot of ways.

Also, since we will definetely be sending more than 1 team(right? Right? R-r-right..?)I don't know how we will split the teams. I'm probably gonna have to make a poll/a skype meeting/[Hero+] meeting.


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Re: II PCWC

Post by Hunat on Sun May 25, 2014 9:57 am

/in :]]]]]


CP since 2008 ~ Still a Noob
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Re: II PCWC

Post by Maple Syrup on Sun May 25, 2014 12:41 pm

Option 1:

Hero1 will be the stronger team comprised of all the BEST players we have to offer.

Hero2 will be made of players that are still really good (cause we fkin sick) but just aren't on the first team.

Will be sort of like a B team in football, however it would still be really good.

I can help organize how the teams are made. We should also be serious about this and try to give it our all to win it.



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Re: II PCWC

Post by Lasen on Sun May 25, 2014 12:48 pm

if we into serious, Imma start training for LC. Best tier ever y/y.


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Re: II PCWC

Post by RudeStyle on Sun May 25, 2014 1:29 pm

lasen am actually good at lc

leave it to the pros scrub.
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Re: II PCWC

Post by Choolio on Sun May 25, 2014 2:01 pm

BWUU and I AM NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NOT HERE
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGHHHGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGGH

GOOD LUCK GUYS

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Re: II PCWC

Post by Loligont on Mon May 26, 2014 3:28 am

Talked to my man Corsola and we might have figured out the best way to do it.

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Re: II PCWC

Post by TGW on Mon May 26, 2014 5:28 am

Deffinetly it will be something based on Option 1.

We are now trying to think something to not make clans with subs totally overpowered in the tour and 'balance' things with tiny clans.

Basically no matter if Hero 1 or 2 wins, its just a win for Hero overall. This means that a clan with a sub has twice the chances of winning the tour at all. So we are contemplating several ideas to make sub-clans work really hard for a place in high rounds.

When we get some legit solid ideas I'll post them here.

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Re: II PCWC

Post by TGW on Mon May 26, 2014 2:01 pm

Well, some sadly important news this evening.

As many know, in order to host a tournament in PO there are some requirements to be done. One of them is get the tour idea approved by TDs (TourDirectors), that in this case are PO users Weavile, Raducan and Samphire.

As PO rules stablish, I sent to every TD about a week ago a detailed description of the tour with all the important details like estimated numbers of participants, duration of the tour, etc. As I had no reply or nothing at all, I decided to PM them on the server. I tried with Weavile, being completely ignored. Then I tried with Samphire, the reply I had was:

''I'm going on LOA and I dont know when I'll come back, but I'll check your tour when I come back''.

After this I asked her if she could just check the PM I sent to her on forums, since it wouldnt take more than 5 minutes and it would all be solved. The reply I got was quite confusing, so I'll just c/p it:

(17:55) Samphire: Look, if we haven;t approved it, then you can;t assume it is okay and good to go
(17:55) Samphire: Only if we let you know t is approved can you consider the tour viable!

After this and as last chance I went to Raducan, hoping that he would give me an explanation or if there was any chance of getting it done. The reply I got was:

''The tours queue is really long and everyone wants the tour done before POCL, so I'm sorry but I cant help you.''

So after this 'STRONG AUTH ALERT' and seeing that they prefer a 32 people MonoSmeargle tour happening instead of a 400/600 people tour, saddens me to announce that the second PCWC wont happen on Pokemon Online forums. Since we can't make it at the same time than POCL (if we want a serious tour that is).

We are contemplating various options like hosting it in Smogon, but this option seems very unlikely. Other options we have are another communities or even our own forums. Since it cant happen on a clan's forum for obvious reasons.

I'll keep you informed from what we finally decide, and I want to apologize too in my name and in the name of my co-hosts for this strong annoyance.

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Re: II PCWC

Post by RudeStyle on Mon May 26, 2014 6:30 pm

why don't you get that ! 0 channel to help you

they have those clan tournaments and shit

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Re: II PCWC

Post by Maple Syrup on Mon May 26, 2014 6:51 pm

RudeStyle wrote:why don't you get that ! 0 channel to help you

they have those clan tournaments and shit

They are pretty balls at making tourneys as their first ones are just a playoff style tournament.

Also if you want to have the PCWC I could say that someone(maybe hero) would be able to host it and create a forum section to have people do all the things they need to do. Also there are many tourney organizing softwares that are free that are usable.



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Re: II PCWC

Post by Night on Mon May 26, 2014 7:02 pm

I agree, but still it won't be the Clan vs Clan type of style he wants to play as and if he does create something similar in Hero it would be like the HCL we just had. So yeah, I don't really know what to say.


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Re: II PCWC

Post by Maple Syrup on Mon May 26, 2014 7:10 pm

Night wrote: I agree, but still it won't be the Clan vs Clan type of style he wants to play as and if he does create something similar in Hero it would be like the HCL we just had. So yeah, I don't really know what to say.
I mean like people join hero forums and we organize it from there cause we do have well developed forums. It would also traffic many people through our forums and attract people to the clan. 
A tournaments section can be created specifically for PCWC and allow access to all types of people.



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Re: II PCWC

Post by TGW on Wed May 28, 2014 12:26 pm

After some turbulent days considering several options, we finally made up our minds. 1st of all I would like to really thank KING LILLI, Maple and Fille for their help and for stay attached to this project. Without your help I would prolly have given up on this.

After contemplating the option of hosting the tour on Hero forums (offer that I really appreciate), we realized that it wouldnt be fair for the other clans to actually join another clan's forum. And cant even imagine the shit that would happen if Hero ends winning.

So in order to keep the shit as low as possible, we decided to create our PCWC own forums. The tournament will be way smaller than initially expected, but hopefully it will be a really interesting inter-clan tour. Also and since we have no initial limitation, we decided to open signups already. (The deadline stills the same initially planned).

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I would like to thanks once again to the entire Hero community. Without your help this tour wouldnt be possible.

If any doubt, question or suggestion feel free to contact me here, in PO or in the new forums.

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Re: II PCWC

Post by Maple Syrup on Wed May 28, 2014 12:32 pm

Blessed ideas I'd be happy to try and help with anything else.



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Re: II PCWC

Post by KyogreF4N on Wed May 28, 2014 3:37 pm

Very good idea, I'm happy that it will finally happen !! If hero wants i'd like to be a part of (hero 1 or 2 or 42524, idfc)


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Re: II PCWC

Post by Death Force on Wed May 28, 2014 5:51 pm

indeed Awesome Idea.If Hero wants i would play in Hero 2 or Hero 3 or whatever it is.

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Re: II PCWC

Post by Slayer on Wed May 28, 2014 6:03 pm

hmm I'd be interested to play
I wreck in ubers etc
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